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	<title>Comments for A. Jesse Jiryu Davis</title>
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	<link>http://emptysquare.net/blog</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 01:50:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Career Fairs, Part 2: How Can Startups Get Noticed? by Fred Wang</title>
		<link>http://emptysquare.net/blog/career-fairs-part-2-how-can-startups-get-noticed/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Wang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 01:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptysquare.net/blog/?p=328#comment-64</guid>
		<description>Code-talk may work for the hardcore, but understand that you&#039;re recruiting at an Ivy and moreover at a career fair, where reputation and prestige are important. List some of the financial backing you have. If you&#039;re funded that&#039;s a definite +1.  As an amateur coder myself I see startups as a way to gain a lot of experience doing startup-lean work, to have an immediate impact while learning from great coders. Mentorship and impact are +1 each. 

A longer term approach would be press coverage. If you&#039;ve got press coverage, that&#039;s immediate legitimacy and prestige points there. You&#039;re getting recognized, and BIU students want to be a part of that recognition. 

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Code-talk may work for the hardcore, but understand that you&#8217;re recruiting at an Ivy and moreover at a career fair, where reputation and prestige are important. List some of the financial backing you have. If you&#8217;re funded that&#8217;s a definite +1.  As an amateur coder myself I see startups as a way to gain a lot of experience doing startup-lean work, to have an immediate impact while learning from great coders. Mentorship and impact are +1 each. </p>
<p>A longer term approach would be press coverage. If you&#8217;ve got press coverage, that&#8217;s immediate legitimacy and prestige points there. You&#8217;re getting recognized, and BIU students want to be a part of that recognition.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Career Fairs, Part 2: How Can Startups Get Noticed? by Alexey Komissarouk</title>
		<link>http://emptysquare.net/blog/career-fairs-part-2-how-can-startups-get-noticed/#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexey Komissarouk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptysquare.net/blog/?p=328#comment-63</guid>
		<description>Sponsor a hackathon, as you guys are (I wrote a little bit maximizing the value from sponsoring a hackathon this past summer: http://alexeymk.com/61608156 ).  

[for the most part] Career fairs are for IBM and Microsoft. Startups recruit at hackathons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sponsor a hackathon, as you guys are (I wrote a little bit maximizing the value from sponsoring a hackathon this past summer: <a href="http://alexeymk.com/61608156" rel="nofollow">http://alexeymk.com/61608156</a> ).  </p>
<p>[for the most part] Career fairs are for IBM and Microsoft. Startups recruit at hackathons.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Career Fairs, Part 2: How Can Startups Get Noticed? by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://emptysquare.net/blog/career-fairs-part-2-how-can-startups-get-noticed/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 23:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptysquare.net/blog/?p=328#comment-61</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure how to get someone who&#039;s never heard of you to stop at your table, sorry.  However, if the school is close to you, getting involved in their community ahead of the career fair can boost your name recognition quite a bit.

Few schools (even big schools) will turn down companies willing to offer internships to undergraduates and that increases visibility considerably.  Offer to give talks at student ACM events or similar.   Offer to give tours of your business and what you do.  If you have qualified staff, offer to have them teach elective and/or adjunct courses. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure how to get someone who&#8217;s never heard of you to stop at your table, sorry.  However, if the school is close to you, getting involved in their community ahead of the career fair can boost your name recognition quite a bit.</p>
<p>Few schools (even big schools) will turn down companies willing to offer internships to undergraduates and that increases visibility considerably.  Offer to give talks at student ACM events or similar.   Offer to give tours of your business and what you do.  If you have qualified staff, offer to have them teach elective and/or adjunct courses.</p>
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		<title>Comment on So You&#8217;re Coming to a Career Fair by A. Jesse Jiryu Davis</title>
		<link>http://emptysquare.net/blog/so-youre-coming-to-a-career-fair/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Jesse Jiryu Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 20:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptysquare.net/blog/?p=321#comment-60</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I probably under-emphasized students&#039; prior internships. Those are really important, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I probably under-emphasized students&#8217; prior internships. Those are really important, too.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Career Fairs, Part 2: How Can Startups Get Noticed? by Dsd311</title>
		<link>http://emptysquare.net/blog/career-fairs-part-2-how-can-startups-get-noticed/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>Dsd311</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 20:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptysquare.net/blog/?p=328#comment-59</guid>
		<description>Hire a graphic artist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hire a graphic artist.</p>
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		<title>Comment on So You&#8217;re Coming to a Career Fair by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://emptysquare.net/blog/so-youre-coming-to-a-career-fair/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 13:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptysquare.net/blog/?p=321#comment-58</guid>
		<description>No, I understood the point just fine.  He&#039;s look for ways to find the students that are the most motivated and and dedicated to their craft.  That doesn&#039;t change any of my points:

1) The best way to determine if a graduate wants a job is to look at the internships and summer jobs they held during their coursework.  This is pretty basic: if you want a job in what you&#039;re studying, you get a job in that field while you&#039;re studying.  It gives you valuable real world experience (hopefully) and an opportunity to determine if you actually love the job or not.  It&#039;s also the most widely available discriminator, and sometimes the only available discriminator (unfortunately).  As such, it should be the first thing on your list.  

2) Some of the discriminators he suggested aren&#039;t necessarily always reliable.  It depends heavily on the situation and the university.  I was required to do an individual project to graduate, and all of my &quot;interesting&quot; electives were just the least terrible choices of those foisted upon me.  You need to have a good background on what the school mandates before making assumptions along those lines.  I suppose it&#039;s fine to discriminate along those lines if you know what the school does, but you certainly cannot generalize.  

2) While individual projects  and independent study certainly say a lot about a person&#039;s motivation, I have to question the educational value of such activities when performed alone.  They&#039;ll get more value out of other activities, like an internship or another class, then they will out of the independent study.

I should clarify: I don&#039;t think independent projects are stupid.  I think there&#039;s tremendous value in them, and that all students should do them &lt;i&gt;as part of their regular coursework&lt;/i&gt;[1].   Doing them as coursework means you take away all of the problems with true independent study: the student has an advisor to keep them on course and help them when they are stuck, they have a defined set of products to produce by the end of the course (e.g., a paper, a presentation, working code), and the whole process more closely mimics how things work in the real world.  It has all of the upsides with fewer downsides.  

But given the choice between &quot;do an independent project all on your own&quot; and &quot;get an internship&quot;, I&#039;d advise students to do latter every time.  They&#039;ll gain more value, suffer a lot less, and gain the benefit of having someone to point out their mistakes.  They are still learning, after all.  

4) Expectations on student performance need to be appropriately tempered.  My individual project?  It was a failure because the scope was too large.  Our group project? A partial failure, due to an unfortunate accident involving a solar panel falling on my board (turns out circuits don&#039;t work very well when they&#039;re cleaved in two).   Failure from students shouldn&#039;t surprise anyone, which is important to remember.  In fact, it&#039;s another thing you should expect to see.  I only bring this point up because the author said an individual project doesn&#039;t need to be, &quot;totally unique, or profitable, or complete&quot; but he didn&#039;t say &quot;It&#039;s perfectly OK to fail&quot;.  It&#039;s something that, in my opinion, needs to be made more explicit in the expectations industry has of students.

[1] Their coursework should ideally include a group project of similar complexity too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I understood the point just fine.  He&#8217;s look for ways to find the students that are the most motivated and and dedicated to their craft.  That doesn&#8217;t change any of my points:</p>
<p>1) The best way to determine if a graduate wants a job is to look at the internships and summer jobs they held during their coursework.  This is pretty basic: if you want a job in what you&#8217;re studying, you get a job in that field while you&#8217;re studying.  It gives you valuable real world experience (hopefully) and an opportunity to determine if you actually love the job or not.  It&#8217;s also the most widely available discriminator, and sometimes the only available discriminator (unfortunately).  As such, it should be the first thing on your list.  </p>
<p>2) Some of the discriminators he suggested aren&#8217;t necessarily always reliable.  It depends heavily on the situation and the university.  I was required to do an individual project to graduate, and all of my &#8220;interesting&#8221; electives were just the least terrible choices of those foisted upon me.  You need to have a good background on what the school mandates before making assumptions along those lines.  I suppose it&#8217;s fine to discriminate along those lines if you know what the school does, but you certainly cannot generalize.  </p>
<p>2) While individual projects  and independent study certainly say a lot about a person&#8217;s motivation, I have to question the educational value of such activities when performed alone.  They&#8217;ll get more value out of other activities, like an internship or another class, then they will out of the independent study.</p>
<p>I should clarify: I don&#8217;t think independent projects are stupid.  I think there&#8217;s tremendous value in them, and that all students should do them <i>as part of their regular coursework</i>[1].   Doing them as coursework means you take away all of the problems with true independent study: the student has an advisor to keep them on course and help them when they are stuck, they have a defined set of products to produce by the end of the course (e.g., a paper, a presentation, working code), and the whole process more closely mimics how things work in the real world.  It has all of the upsides with fewer downsides.  </p>
<p>But given the choice between &#8220;do an independent project all on your own&#8221; and &#8220;get an internship&#8221;, I&#8217;d advise students to do latter every time.  They&#8217;ll gain more value, suffer a lot less, and gain the benefit of having someone to point out their mistakes.  They are still learning, after all.  </p>
<p>4) Expectations on student performance need to be appropriately tempered.  My individual project?  It was a failure because the scope was too large.  Our group project? A partial failure, due to an unfortunate accident involving a solar panel falling on my board (turns out circuits don&#8217;t work very well when they&#8217;re cleaved in two).   Failure from students shouldn&#8217;t surprise anyone, which is important to remember.  In fact, it&#8217;s another thing you should expect to see.  I only bring this point up because the author said an individual project doesn&#8217;t need to be, &#8220;totally unique, or profitable, or complete&#8221; but he didn&#8217;t say &#8220;It&#8217;s perfectly OK to fail&#8221;.  It&#8217;s something that, in my opinion, needs to be made more explicit in the expectations industry has of students.</p>
<p>[1] Their coursework should ideally include a group project of similar complexity too.</p>
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		<title>Comment on So You&#8217;re Coming to a Career Fair by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://emptysquare.net/blog/so-youre-coming-to-a-career-fair/#comment-57</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptysquare.net/blog/?p=321#comment-57</guid>
		<description>You misunderstand the point of the article. The author isn&#039;t saying you need amazingly mind-blowing projects that everyone and their mother uses. You just need to have put in a respectable amount of work to show that you are, in fact, very interested in software development.

Learning new languages actually involves another aspect as well. Obviously, not all languages are the same. Learning a functional language if you&#039;re used to object-oriented programming can open up doors to entire new ways of thinking, which is important as a programmer. You need to be able to identify the best tool for the job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You misunderstand the point of the article. The author isn&#8217;t saying you need amazingly mind-blowing projects that everyone and their mother uses. You just need to have put in a respectable amount of work to show that you are, in fact, very interested in software development.</p>
<p>Learning new languages actually involves another aspect as well. Obviously, not all languages are the same. Learning a functional language if you&#8217;re used to object-oriented programming can open up doors to entire new ways of thinking, which is important as a programmer. You need to be able to identify the best tool for the job.</p>
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		<title>Comment on So You&#8217;re Coming to a Career Fair by Mostovenko Alexander</title>
		<link>http://emptysquare.net/blog/so-youre-coming-to-a-career-fair/#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>Mostovenko Alexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2012 09:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptysquare.net/blog/?p=321#comment-56</guid>
		<description>Thanks, while i was reading this article i had a feeling that i am reading my own thoughts)))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, while i was reading this article i had a feeling that i am reading my own thoughts)))</p>
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		<title>Comment on Zen Portraits by Steve Reed</title>
		<link>http://emptysquare.net/blog/zen-portraits/#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2012 08:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptysquare.net/blog/?p=318#comment-55</guid>
		<description>Great portraits as always, Jiryu. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great portraits as always, Jiryu. <img src='http://emptysquare.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on So You&#8217;re Coming to a Career Fair by Greg Taylor</title>
		<link>http://emptysquare.net/blog/so-youre-coming-to-a-career-fair/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2012 05:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptysquare.net/blog/?p=321#comment-53</guid>
		<description>Good stuff, but I couldn&#039;t disagree more about Contributing to Open Source being of little value to an undergrad. I learned a ton while in college by contributing to various open source projects. The critique of my submissions was invaluable, and I learned a lot more about working and delivering something real-life than I did in class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff, but I couldn&#8217;t disagree more about Contributing to Open Source being of little value to an undergrad. I learned a ton while in college by contributing to various open source projects. The critique of my submissions was invaluable, and I learned a lot more about working and delivering something real-life than I did in class.</p>
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